Can we think highly of Mary? Yes |
Created Date: 30-Jan-2019 |
Prayed to? No as explained in great details |
Last updated: 20-Jun-2023 |
Only One Mediator between God and Human Beings | |
A A A help |
Introductory spiritual absolutes that are in numerous scriptural references:
If you are a Roman Catholic, then you can still go to Mass and enjoy the celebratory worship of God whom we love, just leave praying to Mary, Apostles and Angels out of the target to your prayers. The well-known title of "The Lord's Prayer" or "The Our Father" of Luke 11:1-3 is directing us to pray to God the Father directly. Later, Jesus Christ and the Gospels instructs us, in many scriptural passages, to pray to God the Father in Jesus Christ's name. (For more, see topic: Angels are Not to Worshiped or Prayed To).
Note that at some point in your life as a Roman Catholic, you need to recognize your spiritual health, with rewards in Heaven and a life pleasing to God, is being jeopardized, with many types of limitations, when attending any Christian Denomination, such as Catholicism, that teaches so many concepts, practices, traditions, exclusions, and omissions against the Scriptures. Read the topic on Pope Scripturally Correct that discusses attributes in the Catholic Denomination.
As as an analogy consider purchasing a very intricate, complex and sometimes unstable machine where the person who purchases the machine:
In the analogy, the manufacturer represents God and the machine represents a human-being.
Matthew 5:18-19 | 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and
earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. |
This topic will explain in great detail why we are NOT to pray to Mary, Moses, the Apostles or anyone. Praying to any person or Angel is Blasphemy against God, and taking away from the opportunity to have a personal relationship with God. If you have done this, then not knowing and not understanding is absolutely okay, but just stop. Everyone of us, including this author, are under Grace, which is how we have Salvation through accepting Jesus Christ as our Personal Savior.
There are many scriptural passages that give us the guidance on praying, where "1 Timothy 2:3-6" is very explicit to only pray in Jesus Christ's name as Jesus Christ is the mediator. Revelation 22:8-9 also informs us that Prophets of the Bible, whom we hold with high regard, and Angels that are perfect are fellow servants that must worship God only.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 | 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times; |
Revelation 22:8-9 | 8 And I am John, who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had shown me these things. 9 But he said to me, Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God! |
Many Roman Catholics substitute a relationship with Jesus Christ to taking the Eucharist at a Catholic Mass. Jesus Christ has been described by many Biblical Scholars as the most antireligious person who walked the Earth. Our relationship with God in love for Him is the primary point of our entire existence, where in our life we are to develop that relationship: A relationship with God:
All Christians can hold Mary the earthly mother of Jesus Christ in high respect, just like we all can have high respect and even high regard for Moses, Noah, John the Baptist, and even the Apostles; but never pray to anyone other than God the Father in Jesus Christ's Name.
Luke 1:28-30 | 28 And he came to her and said, Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you! 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. 30 And the angel said to her, Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. |
In the Book of 2 John, many Biblical Scholars are starting to see this book of the Bible as most likely addressed to Mary, Jesus Christ's earthly mother, who is described as "lady chosen by God". This author first heard about this possibility from Chuck Missler's article and his commentaries on MP3, which is this author's conclusion also that this is Jesus Christ's earthly mother Mary.
In many documentaries, this title of "the lady chosen by God" is being attributed to the Church which absolutely cannot be true as the Church is always described as a Virgin. Mary did have other children after Jesus Christ.
2 John 1:1-2 | 1 The elder, To the lady chosen by God and to her children, whom I love in the truth and not I only, but also all who know the truth 2 because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever: |
In 2 John 1:10, John is asking this Lady chosen by God, to not entertain anyone that may come to her who does not teach the good news of the Gospel. The question is why would this request be said and the logical answer is this Lady chosen by God is held in high regard. With her high regard, then she inadvertently could be indorsing a visitor who could claim later that he or she was allowed to meet with the Lady chosen by God thus gaining validation for the visitor's wrongful interpretations of Jesus Christ.
2 John 1:9-11 | 9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work. |
There is the question if Christians should be praying to Mary or to any others in the Bible such as the Moses, Daniel, or any of the Apostles? Consider the scripture in 1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14 and John 16:2-24 that informs us that we should always pray in Jesus Christ's Name and Jesus Christ is the only mediator.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 | 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times; |
John 14:13-14 | 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. |
John 16:23-24 | 23 In that day you will no longer ask me anything. Very truly I tell you, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24 Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete. |
The concern for anyone spending time praying to anything or anyone other than God, through Jesus Christ, is in danger of eventually putting faith and worship into something or someone that is not God. Additionally, no matter how pious, saintly or remarkable a life that anyone has had on earth, none of us have lived a perfect life, given their life for a payment of sins and is also God as Jesus Christ has done.
Romans 3:10-12 | 10 as it is written,
there is none righteous, no, not
one; 11 There is none that
understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God; 12 They have all turned aside, they are together become unprofitable; There is none that doeth good, no, not so much as one: |
Psalm139:7-8 | 7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? 8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths, you are there. |
Genesis 1:1 | In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. |
Isaiah 46:10 | declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not yet done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure; |
Did God give these attributes to Mary? There is no scripture that tells us that Mary received these attributes and especially before the Judgment Seat of Christ which is where all of mankind, including Moses, Elijah, the Apostles and all Christians will get our glorified bodies along with special status, roles and duties.
Praying on the Rosary
Is Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, omnipresent? The point of Mary not being God and not having God's attributes, is think of all the people praying the Rosary and asking Mary to pray for them to God. There are multitudes of millions of Roman Catholics who pray to Mary daily including saying the Rosary. Rhetorically, does Mary have the ability to hear all of the prayers of millions of people simultaneously?
Additionally, if someone who believes in saying prayers to Mary and says that God is listening to those prayers, then what is the point of praying to Mary when we are to always pray to God the Father in Jesus Christ's name, as pointed out in Mediators or one Mediator, discussed already in this topic?
In mankind's history, there have been many centuries when the population of the world was largely illiterate where Christian Icons, Statues and Paintings were a vital part of teaching and worshiping God. These Christian Icons, Statues and Paintings conveyed Scriptures along with Biblical events for the Christian to visualize and grow in Faith. Also, during these many centuries, depending upon what part of the world the Christian lived in, the Christian may have only heard Scriptures in a language that was not understandable.
These substitutes for the Word of God, put a great deal of importance on Christian Icons, Statues and Paintings. Unfortunately, over time, many people began to put reverence on Christian Icons, Statues and Paintings as if these objects were Holy. There are Paintings, Statues and Icons that are of Jesus Christ which have taken on a role of being worshiped which is against the scriptures.
As another example that Jesus told us that He was to be lifted up like the "bronze serpent". Unfortunately, after the initial purpose of the bronze serpent, Israel began to worship the bronze serpent so it had to be destroyed. Moses had made a bronze serpent so that when the people looked at it, they were healed from the snake bite problem occurring from Israel's murmuring against God. The problem arose later when Israel began to worship the Bronze serpent so Hezekiah the King destroyed it in 2 Kings 18:4.
John 3:14 | And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, |
Consider these cases, in the scriptures, of the departed and angels making visitations:
The question is whether or not God has used or is using Mary, in the last few centuries, to appear maybe once or at different times to give a message from God? It may be a possibility, but the message given in the different appearances do have many problems detailed below that are against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
As of 2020, there are literally a few hundred reported appearances of Mary worldwide, which all are not verified or recognized by the Roman Catholic Church. Below is a list of the most commonly known and probably the most famous appearances. In one Internet Article, the writer made the remark that Mary appears to consider Europe a favorite appearance location from the Big Think website. If link is missing see article here.
When reading this table of events, please understand:
# | Name of Event | Country | Location | Date | Appeared To | Notes on the Messages Given by the Appearance. |
1 | Our Lady of Guadalupe | Mexico | Near Mexico City | 9-Dec-1531 | Juan Diego | A famous event that is contested. No message given. Juan's uncle was cured of an illness and roses were picked that were part of a transformation of a cloak to the Virgin Mary. |
2 | Our Lady of Lezajsk | Poland | 1578 | Thomas Michalek | Build a church on the site. | |
3 | Our Lady of Silluva | Lithuania | 1608 | Children | No message. Just weeping Mary. | |
4 | Our Lady of La Salette | France | 19-Sep-1846 | 11 year old Maximin Giraud and 15-year old Melanie Calvat | Message was to respect 7th day and name of God with a threat of punishment against the people. | |
5 | Our Lady of Lourdes | France | Lourdes | 1858 | 14-year old Bernadette Soubirous |
1. what I have to say to you does not have to be written down 2. Would you be so kind as to come here for fifteen days? 3. I do not promise to make you happy in this world but in the other. |
6 | Our Lady of Knock | Ireland | County Mayo | 21-Aug-1879 | Two Women named Mary | Witnesses saw cross and lamb on a small alter enclosed in a a golden light |
7 | Our Lady of Ponmain | France | Pontmain | 17-Jan-1871 | 12-year old Barbedette, her 10 year old brother and two other children. | Prussian forces during war leave the area. |
8 | Our Lady, Help of Christians | Czech Republic | 13-Jan-1866 | Magdalena Kade | No message just a healing | |
9 | Our Lady of Gietrzwald | Poland | 27-Jun-1877 | 13 year old Justyna Szafrynska and friend Barbara Samulowska | Messages given: (a) Say the Rosary every day. (b) Sick would be healed. (c) Anyone swearing falsely does not deserve to go to Heaven. | |
10 | Our Lady of Fatima | Portugal | 13-May-1917 thru 13-Oct-1917 | 3 children: Lucia dos Santos, cousins Fancisco and Jacinta Marto | Message was to pray rosary every day and the prayer would end the great war. She also showed a vision of Hell. (This is a famous event where some saw vision of the Sun doing erratic movements and others saw nothing. More can be read on this event.) | |
11 | Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal | France | 19-Jul-1930 | Catherine Laboure | Medals created to be worn with message for "O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee" | |
12 | Our Lady of the Golden Heart | Belgium | Beauraing | Nov 1932 thru Jan 1933 | 5 children between 9 and 15 years old. | Appeared 33 times asking for chapel to be built and prayer. |
13 | Virgin of the Poor | Belgium | Banneux | 15-Jan-1933 thru 2-Mar-1933 | 12 Year old Mariette Beco | Message was to "Believe in me and I will believe in you." |
14 | Garabandal | Spain | Garabandal | 1961 to 1965 | Four Girls: Conchita, Mari Lli, Jancinta and Mari Cruz | The message was "We must make many sacrifices, perform much penance, and visit the Blessed Sacrament frequently. But first, we must lead good lives. If we do not, a great chastisement will befall us. The cup is already filling up, and if we do not change, a very great chastisement will come upon us." |
Garabandal
This author, back in the late 1960's, saw videos of the Garabandal appearance and this was before the Special Effects of Computer Graphics in film that we have today. Click on the link Garabandal to watch the movie and it is amazing to see the trance like faces. This does not mean that this author believes in Mary being sent from God. This film is most likely one of the strongest tools used by the Roman Catholic Church to get people to pray to Mary, instead of Jesus Christ.
Satanic World's Powers
There are countless examples of religions in the world having some people do incredible things such as:
Walk on glass, hot stones and flaming hot coals with no damage to their feet.
Pharaoh's magicians were able to turn their staffs into snakes just like Moses' staff did as read in Exodus 7:10-12.
In the Tribulation Period, the Antichrist is mortally wounded unto death and was healed as read in Revelation 13:3
Exodus 7:10-12 | 10 So Moses and Aaron came to Pharaoh, and thus they did just as the LORD had commanded; and Aaron threw his staff down before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a serpent. 11 Then Pharaoh also called for the wise men and the sorcerers, and they also, the magicians of Egypt, did the same with their secret arts. 12 For each one threw down his staff and they turned into serpents. But Aaron's staff swallowed up their staffs. |
Revelation 13:3 | One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast. |
As already pointed out, we are to always pray to God the Father in Jesus Christ's name, as pointed out in Mediators or one Mediator! Praying to any other is blasphemy.
After listing the most well-known appearances of Mary, as read above, these are a few of questions for the Christian to consider:
These are some of the points against the messages received and delivered by the Mary appearances:
What is the message given by the appearance? | What is wrong with the message given by the appearance? | |
1 | The messages always point to giving glory to Mary | We are to give glory, worship and praise to God only. |
2 | The recipients of the message were often given to children and teenagers. Some have indicated Mary uses them for her purposes which are supposed to convey children and young adults are innocent so they should be trusted. | In the entirety of the Bible, God never spoke to Children about an important message to be given to others, and we know that there is no one righteous even when in the womb. The Age of Accountability is there to protect young people because they are not only vulnerable but of weak minds that can be influenced and used wrongfully. |
3 | When there are warnings given, the warning is about experiencing pain and suffering on earth because of our sins. | The message does not have us look to Jesus Christ for help. We all will experience suffering in our lives but there are reasons. Mary's messages are always singularly bad. This has hidden message of Mary is trying to make people mad at God and only trust Mary. |
4 | The messages want listeners to believe in her so that their lives will be better. | Only God makes our lives better and gives us the opportunity to earn rewards in Heaven. |
5 | Many of the messages want people to build a church at the location. | Jesus Christ always pointed to a relationship with Him. The first centuries of Christianity involved people meeting in homes and locations that had nothing to do with a physical building. When we receive Salvation, the Holy Spirit resides in us. |
6 | One message directed everyone to take communion often. | Jesus Christ asked us to do this in remembrance of Him. He also said that he would not have the drink of wine until the Wedding Supper of the Lamb. Taking communion does not give someone Salvation as that is a ritual where rituals do not save anyone. Was that worthy of coming from Heaven to tell everyone? No! |
7 | In one appearance, the message is to make and wear Medals giving glory to Mary. The medals have a engraving of Mary on one side and a "M" on the other. This is from the Lady of Miraculous Medal appearance. | Besides the main problem of glory to Mary, this is the problem we have with Paintings, Statues and Icons that are of Jesus Christ and the bronze serpent. |
8 | In most likely the best known and documented appearance at Garabandal the message had severe warnings, where this information has to this day been kept secret. | That makes no sense, and why hasn't the message been completely revealed? God does not use this method. |
9 | Asks for people to do penance for sins. | Having anyone do penance for sins is absolutely wrong. In James 2:20, we learn that we should do good works to help others to the glory of God. There are situations where we should make restitution for something done wrong if possible, BUT Jesus Christ made the payment for all sins and to add on to that is blasphemy. |
From the entirety of the scriptures, we are to have our Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation. If we are is keeping and directing any hopes, prayers or adoration towards Mary then this is a form of Idol Worship.
then the appearances have these possibilities:
The confusion for all of us, that might occur, is when:
A true message from God, as shown in the scriptures, will point to God's Power, Love and Glory. As pointed out in the several sections of this topic, the appearances from Mary are against the scriptural message of the entire Bible, and Mary cannot have God's omniscience and omnipresence.
We need to never under estimate the powers and abilities, albeit limited, of the Satanic Realm. We are marked with protection of the Holy Spirit but still need to know God's Word to detect false messages.
There is no such thing as Magic but there is technology, for lack of a better word, that the Satanic World possess as illustrated in Exodus 7:8-13 along with the abilities of the future Antichrist. The Egyptian Sorcerers, magicians, were able to make their staffs turn into snakes.
Exodus 7:8-13 (negative) |
8 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 9 When Pharaoh says to you, Perform a miracle, then say to Aaron, Take your staff and throw it down before Pharaoh, and it will become a snake. 10 So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron threw his staff down in front of Pharaoh and his officials, and it became a snake. 11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake. But Aaron s staff swallowed up their staffs. 13 Yet Pharaoh s heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the Lord had said. |
Hebrews 2:4 (positive) |
God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will. |
We need to guard our minds with the knowledge of the scriptures, where the well-known prayer to Mary, listed next, is clearly not pointing to Jesus Christ's death on the Cross for the payment of the world's sins, which requires Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior which is the only way for Salvation.
The prayer of Mary leads the speaker of the prayer to believe that Mary can give them salvation and that is impossible. Also, repeating a prayer for fifty-three times on a rosary does not give any power, especially when God wants us to talk with Him as we would talk to someone we love, giving our concerns, feeling His presence in our lives and enjoying His Word in the Bible.
Prayer to Mary | Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death. Amen |
Using the Vatican's website, Catechism of the Catholic Church (vatican.va), which is a very detailed and nicely organized website in multiple languages, there is some information on doctrines of the Catholic Church regarding Mary, albeit not definitive. Note that this author and all Christians can agree on the title given of "Virgin Mary", as a complement and place of honor as noted in this topic. The "Virgin" part of the title implies a perpetual status, as implied in 2021 in Catholic literature. As read in the scriptures, Mary had other children
Sectional Quote |
Notes |
Section III Quote: "HE WAS CONCEIVED BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND WAS BORN OF THE VIRGIN MARY" |
Correct. This was required because of the Curse of Jeconiah by God, where Jeconiah was part of the Royal Bloodline going through Joseph. |
III - 466 Council of Ephesus proclaimed in 431 that Mary truly became the Mother of God by the human conception of the Son of God in her womb: "Mother of God, not that the nature of the Word or his divinity received the beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body, animated by a rational soul, which the Word of God united to himself according to the hypostasis, was born from her, the Word is said to be born according to the flesh."90 |
Correct, but misleading with "Mary truly became the Mother of God" which tries to imply there is something more other than the honor as written in the scriptures. The remaining part does correct the possible reader's misunderstanding. See this link to meaning of hypostasis
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III - 469 The Church thus confesses that Jesus is inseparably true God and true man. He is truly the Son of God who, without ceasing to be God and Lord, became a man and our brother: "What he was, he remained and what he was not, he assumed", sings the Roman Liturgy.95 and the liturgy of St. John Chrysostom proclaims and sings: "O only-begotten Son and Word of God, immortal being, you who designed for our salvation to become incarnate of the holy Mother of God and ever-virgin Mary, you who without change became man and were crucified, O Christ our God, you who by your death have crushed death, you who are one of the Holy Trinity, glorified with the Father and the Holy Spirit, save us!"96
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1. Yellow highlighted is incorrect: "holy
Mother of God".
Mary was human and sinful as all of us are. She was "blessed" to be
chosen as the Earthly vessel and nothing more.
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Is also good to read the section titled "Paragraph 5. THE COMMUNION OF SAINTS", for understand the incorrect Roman Catholic view of prayer, which implies praying to people in heaven and. people in heaven makes people on Earth more righteous.
1 Timothy 2:5 | For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, |
Is it okay to send our prayer requests to someone in heaven and ask them to pray for us?
No as our prayers are to be directed to God only and scriptures like John 14:13-14 state the primary reason to pray to God the Father in Jesus Christ's name.
When we ask someone on Earth to pray for us, we are not praying to that person. Scriptures like 1 Thessalonians 5:25, states to ask others.
When we ask someone, that we know or presume to be in heaven to pray for us, then the action is a form of being insulting to what Jesus Christ did on the Cross and the life of perfection that involved suffering even during his childhood. The question can be rhetorically asked, did Jesus Christ do something to you to not trust Him so that you have to ask someone else in Heaven to speak to Jesus Christ?
Nowhere in the scripture does it tell us to pray to those who have already died and are presumed/known to be in heaven.
John 14:13-14 | Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. |
1 Thessalonians 5:25 | Brethren, pray for us. |
1 Timothy 2:1-7 | 1 I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; 2 for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity. 3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony to be borne in its own times; 7 whereunto I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I speak the truth, I lie not), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. |
Matthew 18:19 | Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. |
This an excerpt from the Angels Topic dealing with prayers, that are not
to be directed to anything created by God, where Angels and Humans are
created beings:
Some scriptures that remind us not to pray to angels, and our prayers are to be to God only.
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By the scriptural inferences and logical assumptions made from reading the scriptures given on the question if those in Heaven can see or hear about us, the answer appears to be yes, but with most likely limitations. As already discussed above, we are not to pray to anyone in Heaven other than God alone.
The Royal Blood Line of Jesus Christ was set up from the beginning with Adam and Eve and there were many events that God did to protect the Royal Blood Line. Jesus Christ had two paths of legitimacy of the Throne of King David, which Jesus Christ will reign from in the Millennial Kingdom.
At one point there was a problem with a King of Israel that did such evil that caused God to issue a curse of that King's lineage, which required the Virgin Birth to get past the Curse of Jeconiah and also to have the seed from God Himself.
One of the many tenants of the Roman Catholic tradition is Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, remained a virgin after giving birth to Jesus Christ. This is definitely not true as evidence by the Scriptures. Click here on this link to read on the topic of did Mary have other Children?
There are two sections of the Book of Revelation that have been misunderstood by the Roman Catholic Faith that the error is based on traditions rather than scriptures. The two sections are Revelation 12:1-5 and Revelation 12:13-17.
Revelation 12:1-5 | 1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; 2 and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4 And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child. 5 And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up to God and to His throne. |
Revelation 12:13-17 These verses are the connection to 1-5 to know it is dealing with Israel, and not children of the Roman Catholic Church. |
These verses indicate the persecution by Lucifer is against the
idiom "woman" which is Israel and no other.
During the
Tribulation Period
there will be a remnant of Israel that will flee to be protected in
Petra. More details on Petra are later in this topic as connected
with
Matthew 24:15-22. The "nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the
face of the serpent",
is a period three and one half years, which is the Tribulation Period's
length, and "nourished"
means protected, fed and cared for in a full human way. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast down to the earth, he persecuted the woman that brought forth the man child. 14 And there were given to the woman the two wings of the great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness unto her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring those who keep God s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. |
We know that scriptures always interpret the scriptures, and when the scripture requires an interpretation, the Holy Spirit always has other references in the scriptures to validate the correct understanding. The idioms of the "Sun and Moon" and "twelve stars", are also used in the scriptural passage of Genesis 37:5-11 so that the reference is exactly identified, which is one of the many double modeling and patterns in the scriptures.
Jacob, who God renames him to Israel, has twelve sons where the son Joseph has two dreams that he tells his family which they become angry over the dream with the implied interpretation. The interpretation is given by Jacob:
Genesis 37:5-11 | 5 Then Joseph had a dream, and when he told it to his brothers, they hated him even more 6 He said to them, Please listen to this dream which I have had; 7 for behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and lo, my sheaf rose up and also stood erect; and behold, your sheaves gathered around and bowed down to my sheaf. 8 Then his brothers said to him, Are you actually going to reign over us? Or are you really going to rule over us? So they hated him even more for his dreams and for his words. 9 Now he had still another dream, and related it to his brothers, and said, Lo, I have had still another dream; and behold, the sun and the moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me. 10 He related it to his father and to his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, What is this dream that you have had? Shall I and your mother and your brothers actually come to bow ourselves down before you to the ground? 11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the saying in mind. |
The Roman Catholic tradition and belief, which can be appear to be honoring God and religious is not correct regarding the interpretation of the identity of the "a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" passage.
The incorrect tradition and interpretation from the Roman Catholic faith are:
The correct understanding of the Revelation 12:1-5 and Revelation 12:13-14 scriptural passages:
Matthew 24:15-22 Jesus Christ speaking |
15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), 16 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains: 17 let him that is on the housetop not go down to take out the things that are in his house: 18 and let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak. 19 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! 20 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a Sabbath: 21 for then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved: but for the elect s sake those days shall be shortened. |
Note: the "abomination of desolation" reference is the event that starts the Tribulation Period, where Lucifer's goal is to murder all Jewish People on the Earth so that they cannot ask Jesus Christ to return. If there are not Jewish People remaining, who recognize Jesus Christ as the Messiah, then the Tribulation Period will not end because Jesus Christ will not return. Obviously this is not going to happen which is also why the remnant of Israel are hidden and protected in Petra.
Replacement Theological Belief
There is the belief by some Christian Denominations, such as the Roman Catholic Faith, that the Church has replaced and will be the recipient of all of the promises to Israel that have yet to happen, as Israel as a nation has forfeited the promises by rejecting Jesus Christ. This is absolutely false and against the scriptures as Israel as a nation will recognize their Messiah during the Tribulation Period. As one scriptural example, Steven the Disciple, was killed by the Sanhedrin for informing them that Israel in the future would accept Jesus Christ, and Israel has a pattern of accepting an offering and promise on the second attempt.
God has many promises that are contained in the prophecies of the Old Testament that are for Israel, not the Church, and these prophecies still have a future fulfillment. The entire Bible contains different dispensations, where Jesus Christ is the central theme, but there are distinct destinies for Israel, the Church, the 70th Week of Daniel / Tribulation people with Salvation, and the people of the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ. God's Word will absolutely happen according to Matthew 5:17-18.
Matthew 5:17-18 | 17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished. |
Biblical Scholars point out that there are many Roman Catholic Traditions and beliefs that are known as part of Replacement Theology because of the substitution of the Roman Catholic Church for Israel. This should be obviously wrong to anyone familiar with the unconditional promises given to the Nation of Israel that have yet to be fulfilled and Israel will eventually recognize their Messiah which is one of the main purposes of the Tribulation Period's purpose. If there is any more doubt consider the 144,000 Jewish Virgins from Twelve Tribes that help evangelize the world for Jesus Christ during the Great Tribulation.
What to read next?
1 Risen - 4 Gospels and is there a discrepancy on Easter? 2. Flood ends where the next day is the first day on the new earth and it is the same day as Christ's Resurrection 3. Day of the week Jesus is Crucified (It was not Friday) 4 Pope, Scriptural Correct? 5 Did Mary remain a virgin after the birth of Jesus Christ?